Why Did Virginia Secede?

Mackey’s new post at https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/02/26/why-did-virginia-secede/ is really a dandy. It is filled with his usual twisted history facts, something that doesn’t surprise anyone. Let’s take a look shall we.

For now I want to just skip the video he has posted and move to his first statement — Add to that the fact that the state didn’t publish official reasons for secession and our task takes some work to accomplish.

Not particularly any hard work Al, it is just your ignorance and laziness showing. Try this

Virginia Ordinance of Secession

April 17, 1861


To Repeal the ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, by the State of Virginia, and to resume all the rights and powers granted under said Constitution:

The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in Convention, on the 25th day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eight-eight, having declared that the powers granted them under the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression, and the Federal Government having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slaveholding States.

Now, therefore, we, the people of Virginia, do declare and ordain that the Ordinance adopted by the people of this State in Convention, on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and seventy-eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and all acts of the General Assembly of this State, ratifying or adopting amendments to said Constitution, are hereby repealed and abrogated; that the union between the State of Virginia and the other States under the Constitution aforesaid, is hereby dissolved, and that the State of Virginia is in the full possession and exercise of all the rights of sovereignty which belong to a free and independent State. And they do further declare that the said Constitution of the United State of America is no longer binding on any of the citizens of this State.

This Ordinance shall take effect and be an act of this day when ratified by a majority of the votes of the people of this State, cast at a poll to be taken thereon on the fourth Thursday in May next, in pursuance of a schedule hereafter to be enacted.

Done in Convention, in the city of Richmond, on the seventeenth day of April, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-one, and in the eighty-fifth year of the Commonwealth of Virginia

Sec’y of Convention.

From where I sit that looks pretty formal to me and it does list their reasons for secession.

The second point Mackey presents is a bunch of garbage about slavery. I am sure Mackey put some time and effort into defending his position, no matter how wrong it is. To be honest I do agree that slavery was an issue to secession for most states, as was other issues, however I stand firm on my statement that slavery was not the cause of the war.

Remember Mackey’s source, the video I skipped? Please also bear in mind I cannot hear well enough to watch the video. I can however read.  This video is found at http://civilwarscholars.com/2011/06/why-did-virginia-secede-dennis-frye/

down the page at 3:03 you find this statement — 3:03 – Well, really it was war, the outbreak of war. When Fort Sumter was fired upon by South Carolinians – and President Lincoln requested that all of those states still within the United States, contribute troops to squash the rebellion in the Southern States, that was too much. Virginia said: “Now, wait a minute, wait a minute. We can’t go fight our brothers in the South. We can argue against them. We can certainly disagree with them and their perspective on the new Confederacy.

Now wasn’t that easy?????


Camp Chase Letters

Then sir, we will give them the bayonet!!!!

Southern Heritage Advancement Preservation and Education now has the transcriptions and images online. These letters were written early in the war before the POW camps for both sides became hellholes. Some letters were in such poor shape we could only guess at what was wrote. Transcribers names are also listed. If you use these letters please give credit.

Transcriptions start at — http://confederatepows.southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?2

Images start at — http://confederatepows.southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/e107_plugins/autogallery/autogallery.php?show=Camp_Chase_Letters

Let me know if you have any problems.

I will be tied up reviewing these files to make sure all letter transcriptions and images are posted. That being the case you comments may not show up for a couple of days.


Not a Confederate but…..

If I was in the position to bestow the honor of being a Confederate Soldier I would .

Found at http://wva.homestead.com/Slave-Articles.html

JONES – John Jones, escaped from slavery in Virginia. Yesterday and Today: Ex-Slave Kept Records At Prison Camp by Shirley Donnelly, Post-Herald/Raleigh Register, Beckley, W.Va., 07 June 1975, Page 4. Mr. Jones kept records for a prison camp for Confederate soldiers at Elmira, N.Y. He kept such meticulous records of each Confederate burial that in 1907 the government was able to place a marker at each grave. From Woodlawn National Cemetery site: He “had charge of the burial of every Confederate soldier. He transcribed every record which appeared on the coffin lids into a book he kept for that purpose. The largest number of burials in a day was 48. Mr. Jones saw that the burials were properly and reverently conducted. He received from the government a fee of $2.50 for each body buried.”

Link to Woodlawn at Find a Grave. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&GSln=Jones&GSiman=1&GScid=66791&CRid=66791&pt=Woodlawn%20National%20Cemetery&


Austin Teenager More Trustworthy Than Adult SCV Liar

Well it seems that Al Mackey and some of his crew are about to ruin their jeans over a cherry-picked statement a student made. See Mackey’s and his lackeys comments here— https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/02/15/austin-teenager-more-trustworthy-than-adult-scv-liar/#comments  .

It seems some teenager in Austin, picked this quote from the Texas SECESSION DECLARATION “Based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color — a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law.” Jacob adds, “As if that’s a bad thing.”

First of all I cannot believe that anyone would offer any secession document as proof positive the war was about slavery. Of course we just say Corey Meyer do the same thing. Folks these documents are just what they say they are SECESSION DOCUMENTS, nothing more. Second, why just take a portion of a document and use it as your proof. What does one do with the rest of the document, just throw it away?

Hummm I wonder what Mackey would have said if he had picked this statement from the Texas doc? They have refused to vote appropriations for protecting Texas against ruthless savages, for the sole reason that she is a slave-holding State.
Would that have made the war about the Indians raids?

The rest of Mackey’s article is just trash. Traitors, liars etc., the usual insults. Turns out Mackey is the only liar when he says this kid is well versed in history. Fact is the kid is just parroting what some biased teacher has told him.

Gee Mackey just think, this kid knows as little as you!!!!!!!!


This is not War For Southern Independence related but still it is a good read. Received in an email. GP



I can only send this to people our age, (well close to our age) since most of today’s people don’t have any idea who these Men were and that’s a pity.

George Gobel comedian, Army Air Corps, taught fighter pilots Johnny Carson made a big deal about it once on the Tonight Show, to which George said “the Japs didn’t get past us.

Sterling Hayden, US Marines and OSS. Smuggled guns into Yugoslavia and parachuted into Croatia. Silver Star.

James Stewart, US Army Air Corps. Bomber pilot who rose to the rank of General.

Ernest Borgnine, US Navy. Gunners Mate 1c, destroyer USS Lamberton. 10 years active duty. Discharged 1941, re-enlisted after Pearl Harbor.

Ed McMahon, US Marines. Fighter Pilot. (Flew OE-1 Bird Dogs over Korea as well.)

Telly Savalas, US Army. Walter Matthau, US Army Air Corps., B-24 Radioman/Gunner and cryptographer.

Steve Forrest, US Army. Wounded, Battle of the Bulge.

Jonathan Winters, USMC. Battleship USS Wisconsin and Carrier USS Bon Homme Richard. Anti-aircraft gunner, Battle of Okinawa.

Paul Newman, US Navy Rear seat gunner/radsioman, torpedo bombers of USS Bunker Hill.

Kirk Douglas, US Navy. Sub-chaser in the Pacific. Wounded in action and medically discharged.

Robert Mitchum, US Army.

Dale Robertson, US Army. Tank Commander in North Africa under Patton. Wounded twice. Battlefield Commission.

Henry Fonda, US Navy. Destroyer USS Satterlee. John Carroll, US Army Air Corps. Pilot in North Africa. Broke his back in a crash.

Lee Marvin US Marines. Sniper. Wounded in action on Saipan. Buried in Arlington National Cemetery, Sec. 7A next to Greg Boyington and Joe Louis.

Art Carney, US Army. Wounded on Normandy beach, D-Day. Limped for the rest of his life.

Wayne Morris, US Navy fighter pilot, USS Essex. Downed seven Japanese fighters. Rod Steiger, US Navy. Was aboard one of the ships that launched the Doolittle Raid.

Tony Curtis, US Navy. Sub tender USS Proteus. In Tokyo Bay for the surrender of Japan.

Larry Storch. US Navy. Sub tender USS Proteus with Tony Curtis. Forrest Tucker, US Army. Enlisted as a private, rose to Lieutenant.

Robert Montgomery, US Navy. George Kennedy, US Army. Enlisted after Pearl Harbor, stayed in sixteen years.

Mickey Rooney, US Army under Patton. Bronze Star.

Denver Pyle, US Navy. Wounded in the Battle of Guadalcanal. Medically discharged.

Burgess Meredith, US Army Air Corps. DeForest Kelley, US Army Air Corps.

Robert Stack, US Navy. Gunnery Officer. Neville Brand, US Army, Europe. Was awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart.

Tyrone Power, US Marines. Transport pilot in the Pacific Theater.

Charlton Heston, US Army Air Corps. Radio operator and aerial gunner on a B-25, Aleutians.

Danny Aiello, US Army. Lied about his age to enlist at 16. Served three years.

James Arness, US Army. As an infantryman, he was severely wounded at Anzio, Italy.

Efram Zimbalist, Jr., US Army. Purple Heart for a severe wound received at Huertgen Forest.

Mickey Spillane, US Army Air Corps, Fighter Pilot and later Instructor Pilot.

Rod Serling. US Army. 11th Airborne Division in the Pacific. He jumped at Tagaytay in the Philippines and was later wounded in Manila.

Gene Autry, US Army Air Corps. Crewman on transports that ferried supplies over “The Hump” in the China-Burma-India Theater.

Wiliam Holden, US Army Air Corps. Alan Hale Jr, US Coast Guard. Harry Dean Stanton, US Navy. Battle of Okinawa.

Russell Johnson, US Army Air Corps. B-24 crewman who was awarded Purple Heart when his aircraft was shot down by the Japanese in the Philippines.

William Conrad, US Army Air Corps. Fighter Pilot. Jack Klugman, US Army. Frank Sutton, US Army. Took part in 14 assault landings, including Leyte, Luzon, Bataan and Corregidor.

Jackie Coogan, US Army Air Corps. Volunteered for gliders and flew troops and materials into Burma behind enemy lines.

Tom Bosley, US Navy.

Claude Akins, US Army. Signal Corps., Burma and the Philippines.

Chuck Connors, US Army. Tank-warfare instructor.

Harry Carey Jr., US Navy.

Mel Brooks, US Army. Combat Engineer. Saw action in the Battle of the Bulge.

Robert Altman, US Army Air Corps. B-24 Co-Pilot.

Pat Hingle, US Navy. Destroyer USS Marshall Fred Gwynne, US Navy. Radioman.

Karl Malden, US Army Air Corps. 8th Air Force, NCO.

Earl Holliman. US Navy. Lied about his age to enlist. Discharged after a year when the Navy found out.

Rock Hudson, US Navy. Aircraft mechanic, the Philippines.

Harvey Korman, US Navy. Aldo Ray. US Navy. UDT frogman, Okinawa.

Don Knotts, US Army, Pacific Theater.

Don Rickles, US Navy aboard USS Cyrene.

Harry Dean Stanton, US Navy. Served aboard an LST in the Battle of Okinawa.

Robert Stack, US Navy. Gunnery Instructor. Soupy Sales, US Navy. Served on USS Randall in the South Pacific.

Lee Van Cleef, US Navy. Served aboard a sub chaser then a mine sweeper.

Clifton James, US Army, South Pacific. Was awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star, and Purple Heart.

Ted Knight, US Army, Combat Engineers.

Jack Warden, US Navy, 1938-1942, then US Army, 1942-1945. 101st Airborne Division.

Don Adams. US Marines. Wounded on Guadalcanal, then served as a Drill Instructor.

James Gregory, US Navy and US Marines.

Brian Keith, US Marines. Radioman/Gunner in Dauntless dive-bombers.

Fess Parker, US Navy and US Marines. Booted from pilot training for being too tall, joined Marines as a radio operator.

Charles Durning. US Army. Landed at Normandy on D-Day. Shot multiple times. Awarded the Silver Star and Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. Survived Malmedy Massacre.

Raymond Burr, US Navy. Shot in the stomach on Okinawa and medically discharged. Hugh O’Brian, US Marines.

Robert Ryan, US Marines.

Eddie Albert, US Coast Guard. Bronze Star with Combat V for saving several Marines under heavy fire as pilot of a landing craft during the invasion of Tarawa.

Cark Gable, US Army Air Corps. B-17 gunner over Europe. Charles Bronson, US Army Air Corps. B-29 gunner, wounded in action.

Peter Graves, US Army Air Corps.

Buddy Hackett, US Army anti-aircraft gunner.

Victor Mature, US Coast Guard.

Jack Palance, US Army Air Corps. Severely injured bailing out of a burning B-24 bomber.

Robert Preston, US Army Air Corps. Intelligence Officer Cesar Romero, US Coast Guard. Coast Guard. Participated in the invasions of Tinian and Saipan on the assault transport USS Cavalier.

Norman Fell, US Army Air Corps., Tail Gunner, Pacific Theater.

Jason Robards, US Navy. was aboard heavy cruiser USS Northampton when it was sunk off Guadalcanal. Also served on the USS Nashville during the invasion of the Philippines, surviving a kamikaze hit that caused 223 casualties.

Steve Reeves, US Army, Philippines.

Dennis Weaver, US Navy. Pilot. Robert Taylor, US Navy. Instructor Pilot.

Randolph Scott. Tried to enlist in the Marines but was rejected due to injuries sustained in US Army, World War 1.

Ronald Reagan. US Army. Was a 2nd Lt. in the Cavalry Reserves before the war. His poor eyesight kept him from being sent overseas with his unit when war came so he transferred to the Army Air Corps Public Relations Unit where he served for the duration.

John Wayne. Declared “4F medically unfit” due to pre-existing injuries, he nonetheless attempted to volunteer three times (Army, Navy and Film Corps.) so he gets honorable mention. And of course we have Audie Murphy, America’s most-decorated soldier, who became a Hollywood star as a result of his US Army service that included his being awarded the Medal of Honor.

Would someone please remind me again how many of today’s Hollywood elite, sports celebs and politicians put their careers on hold to enlist for service in Iraq or Afghanistan? The only one who even comes close was Pat Tillman, who turned down a contract offer of $3.6 million over three years from the Arizona Cardinals to enlist in the US Army after September, 11, 2001 and serve as a Ranger in Afghanistan, where he died in 2004. But rather than being lauded for his choice and his decision to put his country before his career, he was mocked and derided by many of his peers.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I submit to you that this is not the America today that it was seventy years ago. And I, for one, am saddened. My generation grew up watching, being entertained by and laughing with so many of these fine people, never really knowing what they contributed to the war effort. Like millions of Americans during the WWII, there was a job that needed doing they didn’t question, they went and did it, those that came home returned to their now new normal life and carried on, very few ever saying what they did or saw. They took it as their “responsibility”, their “duty” to Country, to protect and preserve our freedoms and way of life, not just for themselves but for all future generations to come. As a member of that “First” generation, I’m forever humbly in their debt.

William Mack Lee: A Black Confederate?

Well maybe, maybe not. Al Mackey makes a compelling argument that he wasn’t at https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/william-mack-lee-a-black-confederate/

Before I make any comments I want to remind everyone that this is the same Al Mackey that gloats every time a Confederate symbol, monument or name comes under attack. This is the same Al Mackey who doesn’t believe there was such things as Negro Confederates. This is the same Al Mackey who is a bigot, one who hates anything Confederate, and his blog is full of attacks that reflects those feelings.

What Mackey has down has taken a book that was surely written by someone else, which is obvious if you read the book, more than likely relating the story in 1918, of a an old man born in 1835. We have no knowledge how much this person knows about the war, or the generals who served. We are not sure of anything about this writer.

The dates make him 73 at the time of copyright. Mr. Lee has a minimal education, page 4 “At the close of the war I did not know A from B, although I had been preaching two years before the war.” Surely at his age his memory is going, more than likely he gets names and places confused and yes I am sure he wants attention enough to embellish his story somewhat.

On the other hand Al Mackey, judging by his photo on his blog, is a reasonably young man, appears to be in good health and is highly educated. In fact he claims to be a historian at Virginia tech. Each and every one of the posters who commented on Mackey’s blog claims to be educated, at least more than William Mack lee. All toe the line that W.M.Lee could not have served Gen. R. E. Lee. At a glance I see where none dispute his claim of being a Negro Confederate.

Moving on in Mackey’s blog post Mackey said– And how many guns fired a salute for Lee’s surrender? None.

Did I miss something? I cannot find where W.M. Lee made such a claim. In fact the statement I find is this on page 3—- “first battle of Manassas, second battle of Manassas and was there at the fire of the last gun for the salute of the surrender on Sunday, April 9, 9 o’clock, A. M., at Appomattox, 1865.” Do you think maybe at least one Confederate fired his weapon in celebration maybe several others joined in and this could be what Mr. Lee witnessed?

So Mackey with your health and education how do you make such a mistake?
Fact # 8: Union troops saluted their former enemies at the surrender ceremony.

The surrender was a highly emotional affair for the participants, many of whom had been fighting for four years. Soldiers on both sides cheered and cried – often at the same time – upon hearing the news.

The formal ceremony and collection of weapons took place on April 12 under the supervision of Brig. Gen. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. As ranks of Confederate soldiers came forward to hand over their weapons and flags, Chamberlain ordered his men to salute their defeated adversaries as a gesture of respect. Other witnesses also reported that interactions between Yankees and Rebels were almost entirely kind and friendly.

I see no point in addressing the remainder of Mackey’s attacks on Mr. Lee since I have shown Mackey’s true colors. I do want to address this statement Mackey made– historically ignorant racist confederate heritage people today with this

Mackey anytime you wish to prove my ignorance you are welcome to come here and try. All we have to do is look at your blog with ignorant bigoted ranting to figure out he is the most ignorant. As to your racism charge would you care to compare racism under the US Flag vs The CSA Flag. I bet you won’t take that challenge either..