What Indicates that he is a Soldier?

Rob Baker is so blinded by his bigotry and hate he cannot see what is in front of him. Now he has some of his boys show their ignorance by supporting Bakers post. http://historicstruggle.wordpress.com/2014/11/13/what-indicates-that-he-is-a-soldier/

If one is inclined to believe Baker this man is not a soldier because no unit or rank is noted on the card—
Page 1

I admit the card does lack information about this man, that is exactly why I posted it. I wanted to see if Baker would lay his bigotry aside and just say for once he may be a Confederate soldier Lack of Information is no proof he is not a soldier. He does not, but in fact he doubles down on his bigotry .

We know Carey is from Mississippi. So what is he doing wandering around Georgia in 1864, the date he was admitted to the hospital? Was this well after the Emancipation Proclamation. Didn’t Atlanta fall about September or October of 1864?? So what was his reason for being in Georgia??? More than likely he was under some sort of military command. One scenario is that he may have been delivering supplies to the Confederate Army for his master. There are many files of Negroes and Whites doing this. If that was the case more than likely he would be listed have a Confederate Citizens File form, which he is not. A CCF card will be posted later.

The fact that he was returned to duty is another clue of military connection. Has anyone ever read about a civilian being returned to duty. I can just see it now. Yes mam I am Sgt. Purvis and I return you husband to duty at your house. Get real Baker.

Next we go to the upper left hand corner of the card not the “c”, that really mans nothing as far as I can determine. It appears to be the alphabetical order in which things are filed or copied. His unit is missing but since he is from Mississippi he is more than likely with a Mississippi unit.

His owners name is Jonathan McGee. That really means nothing either. He may or may not be a Confederate soldier. A quick search of The CWSS at– http://www.nps.gov/civilwar/soldiers-and-sailors-database.htm does not give us a definite Jonathan McGee serving in a Miss. Confederate unit. There are several “J” possibilities so I will not entirely rule that out.

There are more indicators of Carey being under a military command than not.

At this point I think we should look at the YANKEE definition of a soldier

THE PRIVATE SOLDIER.

6. In the fullest sense, any man in the military service who receives pay, whether sworn in or not, is a soldier, because he is subject to military law. Under this general head, laborers, teamsters, sutlers, chaplains, &c. are soldiers. In a more limited sense, a private soldier is a man enlisted in the military service to serve in the cavalry, artillery, or infantry. He is said to be enlisted when he has been examined, his duties of obedience explained to him, and after he has taken the prescribed oath.

General August Kautz’s, USA,”Customs of Service, for Non-Commissioned Officers and Soldiers” (1864), page. 11

There you go. He is a soldier.

Now as we scroll down Baker’s page we come to Bakers first lie.
First off, I’m not poking fun at “Negro” men and women who “served” the Confederacy…or were forced to serve the Confederacy rather.

Sure your were Baker, anyone reading your Confederate Soldier Found posts knows exactly what you were doing. You are a liar. Since you and Oliver demand proof show me using this card where this man was forced to serve. The fact he is a slave is not proof. Are you trying to tell me that the Yankees did not force men to serve their cause. Heck let’s take something easy for you. How about the new York Draft riots? You are welcome to go to the SHAPE website “Yankee Atrocities” at http://confederatepows.southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?6 and serach that website for negroes being forced into the yankee army.

You didn’t ruffle my feathers by disagreeing with me, your ignorance ruffles my feathers. The remainder of post and most all of the comments except Andy Hall and Chris Shelley are nothing but bigoted opinions. Even Dick at a pretense of “knowing” something just takes on a wild goose chase from website to website. And ol’ J. R. at the bottom. Just how ignorant can you get boy???

Now Baker as I said before, I made this a little muddy by design. One reason I knew how you would jump on this card and I knew the most likely people who would post comments and the content of their comments. I was not disappointed. Another reason, searching Confederate records is not a cut and dried science. The lack of information in these records crosses racial, state, unit and command lines. Sometimes you will hit a jackpot, sometimes not. If I had wanted to prove my point right off the bat I could have just as easily posted this card —

Page 1

Now as promised here is a Confederate Citizens file. This is typical of most all cover pages.

Page 1

This is more proof that Carey was subject to military rules. It is more proof of the ignorance and bigotry of Rob Baker.

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45 thoughts on “What Indicates that he is a Soldier?

    • Rob,

      I am gonna make an exception on these comments you have made. I am going to let then go public. All youi have to do is bring you proof this negro was not a Confederate. It is simple as that. Now please post your proof. Remember General August Kautz’s definition of a soldier. That is the criteria you will be working against. Now when are you gonna prove Carey was a soldier???

      • 1.) I do not have to prove Carey was a soldier. That is not my argument, that is your argument. You have to prove he is a soldier. That is how history works. I cannot go to conferences, make a claim and invite people to prove me wrong. That’s just silly.

        2.) I’m not using Genearl August Kautz’s definition of a soldier because that does nothing to tell me how the South viewed Carey in terms of service; nor how Carey viewed himself.

        3.) Thank to the preliminary work of “Border Ruffian,” it appears that Carey applied for a pension after the war as a servant. Apparently he worked as a teamster during the war. That implies there was no freedom of choice.

      • 1. I did prove these two men were soldiers by documents held in the National archives. Your argument was he was NOT a soldier, and that you could prove these documents wrong. . Bring proof of your position. With all your bigoted buddies who are into teaching this should not be a problem. You can’t, they can’t therefore you try to dismiss my position as silly.

        2. Well the Confederate position is pretty clear isn’t it. These negroes have cards filed with the National Archives showing them to be soldiers. You don’t know how Carey viewed himself. Your ignorance and bigotry is showing again.

        3. Doesn’t matter what he did, he was still a soldier, just as much as a man of any other race who was a teamster.. Prove he had no choice. You really need to check your bigotry and ignorance at the door.

        Baker there was no doubt in my mind what you would do. I knew the exchange would end like this. BTW why don’t you actually have some of your black students visit Negroes in Gray at http://negrosingrey.southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?2 so they may learn about their family history?

      • Confederates have documents showing him to be a servant and property. They did not look at him the same way they looked at fighting men. The fact that you cannot understand that is truly astounding

      • Rob,

        This is exactly why I don’t let your ignorant bigoted posts stand. You want to make up your rules as you go, you can’t prove anything but you continue to “yes but.” I did this time just to show all readers how bigoted and ignorant you are. What you have done is put your ignorance, hate and bigotry on public display and now are trying to crawl out of your hole. What you have done is you have let your hummingbird mouth overload your rabbit ass. What are you to ignorant to understand this —

        THE PRIVATE SOLDIER.

        6. In the fullest sense, any man in the military service who receives pay, whether sworn in or not, is a soldier, because he is subject to military law. Under this general head, laborers, teamsters, sutlers, chaplains, &c. are soldiers. In a more limited sense, a private soldier is a man enlisted in the military service to serve in the cavalry, artillery, or infantry. He is said to be enlisted when he has been examined, his duties of obedience explained to him, and after he has taken the prescribed oath.

        General August Kautz’s, USA,”Customs of Service, for Non-Commissioned Officers and Soldiers” (1864), page. 11

        You say you don’t agree with this? let me remind you, you are a nobody, nothing, you are insignificant. I gave you a chance to prove you really care about true history, you blew it. Now I have played with you enough. Either post your documentation or go back to the bigoted sewers you came from. I really don’t care about your lack of time. You wanna comment, lose some sleep.

        LAST WARNING, LAST CHANCE

      • The problem with your analysis.

        1. You’re wrong.
        2. Carey supposedly fought for the South, at least according to you, yet you are using a Union text to define his service.
        3. I’ll post documentation when I’m ready to post documentation. I will also post it on my blog, not yours.
        4. You can whine and cry about being bigoted all you want George, but the truth is, you operate on arguments and hatred. Look how loosely you throw the word “nergro” around….Ya, I’m bigoted. What a laugh. Keep showing that ignorance buddy.

      • 1. No I am not
        2. he did fight for the South. You proved that by posting his pension application. I am using the definition of a soldier to prove a point. If a teamster for the Nort is a soldier, then a teamster for the South is a soldier.
        3. You will post shortly or you will be done here. .
        4. I can use the word Negro because it is historical content. You got a problem with that??? You are a bigot, you post proves it, it is easy to see.

      • He received a servants pensions. To be more accurate, he received a servant of a soldier pensions.

        As you say, it’s on the document in black and white, no interpretation needed.

      • All cards are Confederate Archives cards.

        Carey doesn’t care, nor do I, what his pension is called he eqarned his money Give it to him. Some people call Social Security and entitlement, even though wwe paid it in. We worked we paid our dues it is our money, we earned it. Carey did the same, he paid his dues.

        BTW there is no 61st Mississippi.

      • So you’re speaking for Carey now? Did he leave some sort of memoir about how he felt about his pension?

        And ya, Carey paid his dues as a servant…someone’s property.

      • Carey was on the battlefield and faced all the hazards of a soldier. He was recognized for his service he was a soldier in every sense of the word. That is it in a nutshell.

        And all cards are in the Confederate archives Robby.

        THE PRIVATE SOLDIER.

        6. In the fullest sense, any man in the military service who receives pay, whether sworn in or not, is a soldier, because he is subject to military law. Under this general head, laborers, teamsters, sutlers, chaplains, &c. are soldiers. In a more limited sense, a private soldier is a man enlisted in the military service to serve in the cavalry, artillery, or infantry. He is said to be enlisted when he has been examined, his duties of obedience explained to him, and after he has taken the prescribed oath.

        General August Kautz’s, USA,”Customs of Service, for Non-Commissioned Officers and Soldiers” (1864), page. 11

      • There’s a lot of stuff in the Confederate archives, not just soldiers. And the cats are index cards for reports, not actual reports themselves.

      • No George, he doesn’t. You can continue to post random definitions of the word “soldier” all you want, but until you recognize that none of those definitions deals with slavery in the military, you will continue to misunderstand the service performed by slaves.

      • There is nothing random about what I posted. As I said if it works for a yankee it woks for a Confederate. There are all sorts of records For negroes to be found, some POW, some hospital, some unit service cards, conscript and free, some injury cards, portions of the ORs and maybe much more. To tell your students that there are no Negro Confederate Soldiers, is a bold face lie.

        I provided the documentation, you provided nothing but biased opinions.

      • Again that is your opinion. Everything you post is bigoted, that is proven

        Yes and I said thank you. I am a nice guy. You are done, no more posts will be allowed.

        HAVE A DIXIE DAY.

    • ha, Rob is dragging you along, wasting your time, and once you denounce him for what he is and what he represents, he will avoid you and look for some other Southern supporter to attack, and repeat the process. He, Simpson, Levin, Hall, Mackey, Young, want to alter the landscape, to erase all Southern supporters, I will say no more about them to you on your blog, but, that is just how it is.

      • I know Rob from way back. he is not doing anything that I don’t expect. I am just proving his Negro Confederate Found post is nothing more than ignorance and bigotry.

  1. George
    Ask him to explain Holt Collier. I guess Mr. Collier was the only black man the Confederates made an exception for(sarcasm). The Confederate had a policy that would not let slaves serve in the army because Jeff Davis felt it was not right to make a man fight and keep him in bondage.

    “Although there was a prohibition against blacks serving in uniform, Confederates made an exception for Collier because of his demonstrable skills. Collier stayed with the Hinds men until later being given the opportunity to ride with the 9th Texas Cavalry. He did so, serving in Company I through the rest of the war, fighting in Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee.”
    (Wikipedia)

    • Jessie,

      I appreciate Mr. Collier’s service but using him just makes things to easy. As I stated before I am posting these cards with very little info by design. I knew by posting such cards would expose his bigotry by not giving these men’s service these slightest sliver of acknowledgement. In fact did you notice how he doubles down on his bigotry by saying these men were forced to serve but offers no proof? Did you notice how he avoids the question of the new York Draft Riots? Wasn’t those riots because men were being forced to serve Lincoln???

      I am gonna follow this path for a while just for the educational purposes that it may serve. In the next few days I might post some cards from men who were from up in your neck of the woods.

  2. Ahem, As I have indicated in previous discussions, we must understand that Baker, Simpson, Levin, Meyer, Hall, Mackey, Young and all the thousands like them are not concerned about the war, or history as such, what they are doing is following the orders of antagonist, political correct, liberal, morons, just attack, attack and criticize. These men want the South and conservatives today to look bad, and most Southerners are conservative, God loving people, Baker excluded.

    It is a war of good and evil, while the smell of black powder burning in your nostrils, the sound of the Rebel Yell and thousands of muskets firing against an enemy and the Confederate battle flag billowing, the facts are it is not about the war, it is about GOOD VERSUS EVIL.

    These anti-South people hate God, love homosexuality, same sex marriage, abortion, legalized drugs and Obama’s lies. They oppose you and me, and all good people. They in many cases are not themselves aware of this, and if you do not know Good you will not understand and think this is all some silly man writing. Not the case friend, I love my ancestors, and what they did to defend Virginia and other Southern states. I love how they lived, how they loved their family and lands.
    I love our Southern nature, friendly, fun, love good food, and all that goes with such a life style but also we love God. So be aware of the facts, look through the smoke, look at the big picture, and then Baker and was the black man a CS Soldier or not as Baker argues is a phoney attack, counter-attack Baker, call him what he is, a lover of Liberal positions and ideas, a democrat, a Southern hater, and a rotten traitor from Georgia.

    • Don’t know that I would get into all these moral issues myself, I am more about history. Remember back when Baker his first post “Black Confederate Soldier Found?” This came across as if the only Negro Confederate soldier that could be found would be a modern day re-enactor. I intend to show Baker he is wrong by using these cards that lack info. I am gonna make him work and learn. The same for his buddies.

      Did you notice on his blog post page when he posted the “Carey” card the only people who would offer him any real props was Jimmy Dick and Jarette Rub—. Both know to hate anything Confederate. That says a lot about un-biased research.

  3. I should have also stated the other obvious fact about Rob Baker, he wants so much to be a historian, but he is not even a History Buff , you presented a copy of an official Confederate
    States Army service record, which is maintained in states and in the National Archives of America, yet the Moron wants to argue with you, (my recommendation that I just recently learned) Screw him, and don’t get hung up on proving anything to these troublemakers, all they want is to have you argue, avoid the argument, tell them to get lost and plow ahead with the truth, this is what they hate the most, so help them stay angry, tell the truth and don’t argue with these idiots.

  4. Still waiting for that official CSA record that proves this man was a solider. Your opinion doesn’t count because the record you are showing proves that he was not a soldier, but a black laborer. Black laborers were not soldiers.

    As for your equating blacks who were forced to serve the CSA via their labor, there is a massive difference between soldiers who are support troops and civilian (or slave) laborers. Support troops are trained and armed. Civilian laborers are not. In the time of the Civil War, the black laborers were not armed and not considered to be soldiers.

    You make the statement saying they were soldiers, but in the process are rejecting what the people, specifically the confederates, said about those black laborers during the war and after the war.

    So, basically once again the only thing you have proved is that you are not a historian because you can’t use facts.

    • What no insults? Tell me Jimmy just why should I let your ignorant, biased post stand? Your hate for the Confederacy is well documented.Do you have any real facts to post or you just shooting in the dark. Every point you make in your comment has already been addressed, perhaps you should take time to read instead of being in such a hurry to post.

      You talk about me getting my butt handed to me on every post. As I said before, your statement may be true, but it is not you handing me my butt. Truth be know that statement is just your opinion and opinions are just like assholes, everyone has one. Guess what I have named my opinion???

      Oh I think Barkar can made a reasonable argument of own his without any help from you. At least give him that chance.

      • Oh look, denial from someone with his butt on a platter. Let me know when you earn a degree in history. Until then keep on piddling around lying to everyone. I’ll be teaching history and pointing out why people like you are wrong.

      • As I said it was never you. You had a chance to be a hero, but you were to stupid to post some actual fact. You blew it. You a nothing but a little pukey punk.

        You teach your version of history that is all

        You are done here fool.

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