What Did Lincoln know?

Did Lincoln have any idea of the TRUE situation in Fort Sumter? According to the testimony of Col.John B. Baldwin(bio at http://genealogytrails.com/vir/augusta/bio_b.html) he did. That being the case, with either peace or war to be had, Lincoln went ahead with his invasion plans and started a war because of his revenues.

Question.-You drew a distinction between a politician and a gentleman?”

Answer.-yes, sir; he laughed a little at that. He said something about the withdrawal of the troops from Sumter on the ground of military necessity. Said I, “that will never do under heaven. You have been President a month to-day, and if you intended to hold that position you ought to have strengthened it, so as to make it impregnable. To hold it in the present condition of force there is an invitation to assault. Go upon higher ground than that. The better ground than that is to make a concession of an asserted right in the interest of peace.”-“Well,” said he, “what about the revenue? What would I do about the collection of duties?” Said I, “Sir, how much do you expect to collect in a year?”-Said he, “Fifty or sixty millions.” “Why sir,” said I, “four times sixty is two hundred and forty. Say $250,000,000 would be the revenue of your term of the presidency; what is that but a drop in the bucket compared with the cost of such a war as we are threatened with? Let it all go, if necessary; but I do not believe that it will be necessary, because I believe that you can settle it on the basis I suggest.” He said something or other about feeding the troops at Sumter. I told him that would not do. Said I, “You know perfectly well that the people of Charleston have been feeding them already. That is not what they are at. They are asserting a right. They will feed the troops and fight them while they are feeding them. They are after the assertion of a right. Now, the only way that you can manage them is to withdraw from them the means of making a blow until time for reflection, time for influence which can be brought to bear, can be gained, and settle the matter. If you do not take this course, if there is a gun fired at Sumter-I do not care on which side it is fired-the thing is gone.” “Oh,” said he, “sir, that is impossible.” Said I, “Sir, if there is a gun fired at Sumter, as sure as there is a God in heaven the thing is gone. Virginia herself, strong as the Union majority is now, will be out in forty-eight hours.” “Oh,” said he, “sir, that is impossible.” Said I, “Mr. President, I did not come here to argue with you; I am here as a witness. I know the sentiments of the people of Virginia, and you do not. I understood that I was to come here to give you information of the sentiments of the people, and especially of the sentiments of the Union men of the Convention. I wish to know before we go any further in this matter, for it is of too grave importance to have any doubt of it, whether I am accredited to you in such a way as that what I tell you is worthy of credence.”-Said he, “You come to me introduced as a gentleman of high standing and talent in your State.” Said I, “That is not the point I am on. Do I come to you vouched for as an honest man, who will tell you the truth?” Said he, “You do.” “Then,” said I, “sir, I tell you before God and man, that if there is a gun fired at Sumter this thing is gone. And I wish to say to you, Mr. President, with all the solemnity that I can possibly summon, that if you intend to do anything to settle this matter you must do it promptly. I think another fortnight will be too late. You have the power now to settle it. You have the choice to make, and you have got to make it very soon. You have, I believe, the power to place yourself up by the side of Washington himself, as the savior of your country, or, by taking a different course of policy, to send down your name on the page of history notorious forever as a man so odious to the American people that, rather than submit to his dominations, they would overthrow the best government that God ever allowed to exist. You have the choice to make, and you have, in my judgment, no more than a fortnight to make it in.” that is about as much as I can gather out of the conversation now. I went to Alexandria that night, where I had telegraphed an acceptance of an invitation to make a Union speech, and made a speech to a large audience which, I believe, was the last Union speech made in Virginia before the war; and I went on to Richmond and reported to those gentlemen.

The complete interview can be read at http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?2008125.0#post_2011084

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Maybe Brooks Simpson Has the reading problem?

LOL LOL LOL Talking about Brooks Simpson misrepresenting or misunderstanding the written word http://cwcrossroads.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/learning-to-read/ ? Or you kidding me not the great Brooks Simpson!!!!!!!!!!

Recently Brooks banned me from his blog at http://cwcrossroads.wordpress.com/2014/03/12/the-daily-show-fizzle/ on some trumped up excuse about making an accusation twice. No joke it is right there on his pages. Actually I was trying to figure out if I had a problem with my computer, Simpson had a problem with his blog or if Word Press was having problems. As proof I offer this email I opened this morning —–

From: Dustin – WordPress.com <help@wordpress.com>
To: gpthelastrebel@att.net
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2014 3:46 PM
Subject: [#1786943]: Automattic Security – http://gpthelastrebel.wordpress.com
> Issue: I cannot post comments to other blogs. On my blog I can only post comments by going through the admin section
> The above issue is related to sites hosted on WordPress.com and not the open source WordPress project: Yes
Hi there!
Are you trying to comment on an individual post? Or are you trying to comment from the home page?
Can you provide me a link to another blog that you’ve tried to leave a comment on?
Thanks!
Dustin H.
Happiness Engineer | WordPress.com | Automattic.com

 

  • Now it is just my opinion Simpson was just looking for an excuse to ban me. The reason being we were discussing slavery as a cause of the WBTS. Simpson and Dick had fired all their bullets trying to prove this point when Simpson drawing on all of historical training brings up a quote by J. S. Mosby, who states — “People must be judged by the standard of their own age. If it was right to own slaves as property it was right to fight for it. The South went to war on account of slavery. South Carolina went to war – as she said in her Secession proclamation – because slavery wd. not be secure under Lincoln. South Carolina ought to know what was the cause for her seceding.”
  • . I countered with one of Sherman’s quotes in which he stated the war was for control of the Mississippi river — From W. T. Sherman’s memoirs—
    CHAPTER VII. LOUISIANA 1859-1861.
    I think my general opinions were well known and understood, viz., that “secession was treason, was war;” and that in no event would the North and West permit the Mississippi River to pass out of their control. But some men at the South actually supposed at the time that the Northwestern States, in case of a disruption of the General Government, would be drawn in self-interest to an alliance with the South. What I now write I do not offer as any thing like a history of the important events of that time, but rather as my memory of them, the effect they had on me personally, and to what extent they influenced my personal conduct.

I mentioned to Simpson that we all know that neither Mosby or Sherman were policy makers for their respective governments and that is why I never use Shaman as a source in a real factual debate. Being a typical neo-yankee, Brooks then goes into a rant about how I refuse to learn etc etc etc. Well if Simpson was any sort of un-biased historian he could produce better sources or just admit the truth I GOT THE BEST OF HIM!!!!!!

I know Simpson will more than likely read this so since I cannot find anything on the subject — Simpson please show us where Mosby was a policy maker for South Carolina or the Confederacy

Some Thoughts On Why attendence is Down at Beauvoir

Beauvoir has nothing to offer to compete with other tourist attractions here on the Gulf Coast.  They offer Confederate Memorial Day, Spring and Fall muster, and Christmas lights with buggy rides.  Tours of the grounds are mostly year round. That is it. There are only so many times a person wants to visit a museum.

The rest of the Gulf Coast offers excellent fishing inshore and around the islands.  Beautiful beaches on coast and most of the islands and we all know that a beautiful beach translates to —- water sports of course.   We have the casinos, with their excellent buffets and free shows and sometimes even a winner or two.  We are 75 miles from New Orleans or Mobile, we have pro hockey and in the process of getting pro baseball.  We have excellent golf facilities and for the most part beautiful weather 10 months out of the year. Our coliseum offers boxing; MMA, car, gun and boat shows, basketball, concerts, and festivals are offered in many of the venues along the coast.  A don’t forget about the weeklong “Crusin’ The Coast.” So what would you pick?

Pretty much the same problems can be said for Fort Massa chutes on Ship Island. People go for the fishing or the water and beach seldom does a person go just to visit the fort. In fact so few go the NPS used a volunteer last year to give tours.

Despite what you here  about New Orleans, Katrina destroyed the Gulf Coast. All the beautiful historic houses are gone from Beach Boulevard; most of these former sites are now just empty lots. Our harbors are coming back but not fully up and running at this time. We are growing but at a slower pace. Now the reason this is a Confederate monument, there is a Confederate cemetery behind the main buildings. So the CBF has a place on the property, it is still a soldiers flag. If any flag does not have a place on the Beauvoir property it is the United States flag. Perhaps that is why attendance is down???

Judge Napolitano stirring up neo-yankees.

Appears that some of my Union leaning friends are all up in arms about the comments Judge Andrew Napolitano made on the Jon Stewart’s show (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-11-2014/the-weakest-lincoln). I have read the comments of Brooks Simpson and Al Mackey and I am amazed they would attack the Judge on these points.

First let’s take a look at Brooks Simpson’s page at http://cwcrossroads.wordpress.com/2014/03/12/the-daily-show-fizzle/  Brook’s does the typical spin a roo of facts to make his agenda driven case. His opening comment is the Fugitive Slave act was to implement a provision in the Constitution. If that is so I cannot find that information at http://www.civil-war.net/pages/fugitive_slave_act.asp.  He continues with the Atlantic slave trade deaths and The War for Southern Independence deaths comparison makes no sense. Maybe, maybe not, the exact total figures for each remain unknown today.

 Brooks continues on the game “The Weakest Lincoln “game and the idea that tariffs were not the cause of the war, yet he gives no reason why. I am just assuming being somewhat familiar with the position of these folks that he thinks slavery is the cause of the war. How anyone can possibly think slavery was the cause and not tariffs simply escapes me.  Simpson knows the truth, yet his agenda driven stance will not let him post the truth.  I want to go on record as posting to Brooks Simpson’s chat room several times that slavery was not the cause of the war. Simpson has yet to dispute that statement.

 Now taking a look at Al Mackey’s page at http://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2014/03/14/dont-get-your-history-from-pundits-or-fake-news-shows/comment-page-1/#comment-5269 Like Simpson, Mackey’s big compliant seems to be with the Fugitive Slave law. Note that intentional or not he seems to disagree with Simpson in saying the FSL “The Fugitive Slave Law was just that–a law.” He then goes on to try to paint a glowing picture of Lincoln loving the slaves. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Lincoln didn’t care about the Negro or the slaves; in fact he had a program to remove them from the United States. Also if Lincoln so loved the Black man why did nearly one-quarter of all those housed in “contraband camps” die? The fact of the matter is Mackey doesn’t want the truth to be told.

 As Mackey goes on with his commentary he, as background, he relates the story of the 3 slaves who escaped to Fort Monroe in 1861. The actions of Gen. Butler lead to the contraband act or the First and Second Confiscation Acts. These acts, as Mackey, points out states that “any slave of a rebellious or disloyal owner was automatically freed.  All a slave coming into Union lines had to do was tell the Union officers his owner was disloyal.” The loyal slave owner gets his slave returned to him. A couple more acts that Mackey points out supposedly frees slaves up to and including the Emancipation Proclamation. That is just not true. Go here http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured_documents/emancipation_proclamation/transcript.html and you will find this–“Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana, (except the Parishes of St. Bernard, Plaquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James Ascension, Assumption, Terrebonne, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the City of New Orleans) Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia, (except the forty-eight counties designated as West Virginia, and also the counties of Berkley, Accomack, Northampton, Elizabeth City, York, Princess Ann, and Norfolk, including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth[)], and which excepted parts, are for the present, left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued.” So if the area was under Union control a loyal slave-owner you got to keep your slaves.

In conclusion both of these agenda “historians’ only tell part of the truth.  It is a shame they attack Judge Napolitano on some very weak points. I wonder why they didn’t make the same sort of attack on Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee and her claim the Constitution is 400 years old? Biased maybe?  I wouldn’t want either of these educators teaching my kids 5th grade history.

 It does appear to this reader these attacks are based on the fact that the judge is telling true historical fact and that is something they cannot stand.

In Response to Col. Bateman

Col. Bateman,

In response to your article “It’s about Slavery Stupid” at http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/civil-war-was-about-slavery-022814#comments

The only reason I am contacting you by email is because I could not get your blog page to work. I could only see one comment out of 59 and I could not post a reply. I had rather exchange facts out in the open so everyone can see them. If you decide to contact me your by email your comments will be posted to the links after this paragraph. As stated below you are invited to a working website that allows non-members to view all posts. If you want to defend your position you are more than welcome to do so.

http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_post.php?nt.2

and

Cold Southern Steel at — https://coldsouthernsteel.wordpress.com/2014/03/04/in-response-to-col-bateman/

First of all the WBTS WAS NOT about slavery at all.  I can prove you are wrong. Your sources are nothing more than cherry picked quotes.

Second, I have documented about 10,000 Negroes who served the Confederacy in one way or another. Feel free to visit http://negrosingrey.southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?2 to challenge any entry you disagree with.

Third. I challenge you to a civil, factual historical debate. We can use the Southern heritage Advancement Preservation and Education forum at http://southernheritageadvancementpreservationeducation.com/page.php?4

Leave your insults at home bring all the facts you have, I assure you that you will need them.

 George Purvis                                                                                 Southern Heritage Advancement Preservation and Education

Some Facts about Andersonville

 “Then sir, we will give them the bayonet”

Rob Baker in his blog at http://historicstruggle.wordpress.com/2014/02/24/andersonville-the-anniversary-the-south-would-like-to-forget/ says that the South would like to forget the anniversary of the opening of Andersonville. He gives no reason why. As usual he presents no facts to support his statement. So Baker why should we be ashamed of Andersonville? Give me one reason.

Like everyone else I would hate to be a POW and I hate the fact that so many men both North and South had to suffer and die under the conditions and treatment they received, but I remind you the South was invaded by the North.  Another fact to be noted, Lincoln and his henchmen’s treatment of the Confederate POWs was deliberate under the retaliation policy of the North; the Confederate government had no policy of retaliation.

On another note baker simply refuses to mention the hell holes known as Yankee POW camps. Camps such as Camp Chase, Elmira, and Camp Douglass simply did not take care of their prisoners even though life was barely disrupted in these states. Anderson was in Georgia a state being devastated by Sherman and his army.  The likelihood that the Confederate government had the supplies or the facilities to take care of the number POWs that were sent to Anderson is very slim.  

Speaking of Sherman, why didn’t he simply free the POWs at Andersonville when he had the chance? It is simple. Let’s see what Sherman has to say in his own words from Sherman’s memoirs—-

Soon after our reaching Atlanta, General Hood had sent in by a flag of truce a proposition, offering a general exchange of prisoners, saying that he was authorized to make such an exchange by the Richmond authorities, out of the vast number of our men then held captive at Andersonville, the same whom General Stoneman had hoped to rescue at the time of his raid. Some of these prisoners had already escaped and got in, had described the pitiable condition of the remainder, and, although I felt a sympathy for their hardships and sufferings as deeply as any man could, yet as nearly all the prisoners who had been captured by us during the campaign had been sent, as fast as taken, to the usual depots North, they were then beyond my control. There were still about two thousand, mostly captured at Jonesboro, who had been sent back by cars, but had not passed Chattanooga. These I ordered back, and offered General Hood to exchange them for Stoneman, Buell, and such of my own army as would make up the equivalent; but I would not exchange for his prisoners generally, because I knew these would have to be sent to their own regiments, away from my army, whereas all we could give him could at once be put to duty in his immediate army.

 Let’s see what one POW at Andersonville has to say about the exchanges—

I am certainly no admirer of Jefferson Davis or the late Confederacy, but in justice to him and that the truth may be known, I would state that I was a prisoner of war for twelve months, and was in Andersonville when the delegation of prisoners spoken of by Jefferson Davis left there to plead our cause to with the authorities at Washington; and nobody can tell, unless it be a shipwrecked and famished mariner, who sees a vessel approaching and then passing on without rendering aid, what fond hopes were raised, and how hope sickened into despair waiting for the answer that never came.

In my opinion, and that of a good many others, a good part of the responsibility for the horrors of Anderson rests with General U.S. Grant, who refused to make a fair exchange of prisoners.

Henry M. Brennan, Late Private, Second Pennsylvania Cavalry”

(Southern Historical Society Papers, Volume I, page 318)

 

From Fox’s Regimantal return of losses (Union)

DEATHS FROM ALL CAUSES.

Cause Officers Enlisted Men Aggregate
Killed, or died of wounds 6,365 103,705 110,070
Died of disease 2,712 197,008 199,790
In Confederate Prisons 83 24,783 24,866
Accidents 142 3,972 4,114
Drowning 106 4,838 4,944
Sunstrokes 5 308 313
Murdered 37 483 520
Killed after capture 14 90 104
Suicide 26 365 391
Military executions   267 267
Executed by the enemy 4 60 64
Causes known, but unclassified 62 1,972 2,034
Cause not stated 28 12,093 12,121
Aggregate 9,584 349,944 359,528

 

OThis is the only source I can find for Confederate deaths. Note the Union death rotal closely matches Fox’s return.

Official United States Government POW Death Figures

U.S. Secretary of War Stanton’s official figures of 1866 in the Library of Congress ~ states: 

Federals in Confederate Prison Camps ~ Total 270,000 ~ Deaths 22,576 ~ 8.36%

Confederates in Federal Prison Camps ~ Total  220,000 ~ Deaths 26,436 ~ 12.02%

It is typical of Rob baker to post little or no facts on his blog, the reason is simple he has none!!!!!!!!!

 

So Baker, tell me again what is it I am supposed to forget??/

I wonder how they feel now?

To all those neo- yankees who tell who call for the removal and outright ban of everything Confederate, how do you feel now. To all those people arguing for immigration and amnesty how do you feel now?  This may only be the beginning!!!!!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/27/court-rules-school-can-ban-american-flag-shirts-to-avoid-racial-strife/

A federal court ruled Thursday that a northern California high school did not violate the constitutional rights of its students when school officials made them turn their American flag T-shirts inside out on Cinco de Mayo or be sent home due to fears of racial violence.

The three-judge panel unanimously decided the officials’ need to protect the safety of their students outweighed the students’ freedom of expression rights.

Administrators at Live Oak High School, in the San Jose suburb of Morgan Hill, feared the American-flag shirts would enflame Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday, and ordered the students to either turn the shirts inside out or go home for the day.

The school had a history of problems between white and Latino students on that day, and also had a documented history of violence between gang members and between racial groups. The court said these past problems gave school officials sufficient and justifiable reasons for their actions and that schools have wide latitude in curbing certain civil rights to ensure campus safety.

“Our role is not to second-guess the decision to have a Cinco de Mayo celebration or the precautions put in place to avoid violence,” Judge M. Margaret McKeown wrote for the panel. The past events “made it reasonable for school officials to proceed as though the threat of a potentially violent disturbance was real,” she wrote.

The San Jose Mercury News reports the parents of the students represented in the lawsuit claim their children’s First Amendment rights were violated. The Ann Arbor, Mich.-based American Freedom Law Center, a politically conservative legal aid foundation, and other similar organizations took up the students’ case and sued the high school and the school district.

“This is the United States of America,” the mother of one of the students Kendall Jones told the San Jose Mercury News. “The idea that it’s offensive to wear patriotic clothing … regardless of what day it is, is unconscionable to me.”

The parents have said in previous interviews with several publications that their children were only trying to be patriotic, not start a fight with Latino students.

William Becker, one of the lawyers representing the students, said he plans to ask a special 11-judge panel of the appeals court to rehear the case. Becker said he and the parents of the children are prepared to take the fight all the way to the Supreme Court.